Snooping around Stratford
CNR’s “Big” Shop
Driving through Stratford yesterday I went past the long abandoned (for railroad use anyway) CNR shops. Its been about 10 years since I have had a look at the place and was quite shocked to find most of it missing. A fire in September 2003 destroyed a good chunk of the building, and it looks like parts of it are being torn down. I am not sure what the fate of this structure will ultimately be, there is a sign there proclaiming all kinds of optimistic possibilities, but somehow I don’t think it will come to pass.
Today I decided to grab my camera and go back and poke around a bit to see what I could find.
I put on my “urban explorer’s” hat and found a way in. What I found was shocking, and breath taking at the same time.
Below are some of the pictures I took today, keep in mind it was VERY cold, so forgive the camera shake…
then…
now….
Plenty more pictures, click on link below…
Its hard to grasp just how big this space is! Must have been an incredible place to be in when it was in use. There are 30 or 40 bays the length of the shop, each one with the rails still in place. The pits seem to have been covered over, all but one, which was full of ice! Unfortunately, I shivered a bit too much when taking that picture and just got a blur…
Door. Both a man door and an engine door.
Close up…
I wonder where the last guy who painted that door is today, or the other extreme, the guy who built it. I find I often think of stuff like that…
High hopes
Someone is an optimist. Its been my experience that the grander the ambition, the more likely the fire….
click on image for larger view
The door was open. Honest.
The first impression is like walking into a cathedral, the size of the open space is immense! This picture was taken in the middle of the shop.
What a toilet.
I wonder who was the first to…. never mind.
Groovy pipe
I have no idea what this was for, there was a bend like this every 100 feet or so…
Its always good to see the graffiti crowd has been here…
I wonder how many of these vandals’ grandfathers supported their families by working here for 12 hours a day.
Various views of the inside…
Engine entrance
There were two side entrances into the shop, both with simple double doors. An engine would drive in, or be pulled in, and the large 200 ton overhead crane would simply pick it up and run it down the length of the shop to an empty bay for work. Would have been a bit unnerving to have a full size steam engine flying overhead!
A big pile of bricks
For some reason they decided to keep these inside, away from the other piles of bricks outside. Maybe they didn’t get along with each other…
Engine entrance
Looking into the shop from one of the engine entrances. This small space would just fit an engine and nothing else! Don’t know if the punch clock and time card racks were put there after the railroad vacated the building or not.
Frosty brown refreshment
They were all empty, I checked.
Frosty white refreshment
I guess those railroad men weren’t bashful….
Turntable pit ruins
The pit is still distinguishable although the deck is long gone. Engines would enter the yard along side of the shop and onto the turntable where they would be spun 90 degrees, from here they would enter the shop.
Hydrant
Low budget renovation
I guess when the last tennant of the building took it over they simply covered the entire thing with siding, covering up 100 years of “use”. A small piece of the original architecture is visible. Personally, I prefer the original.
Posted by: | 02-13-2005 | 06:02 PM
Posted in: Uncategorized
Just read your part about your trip through the CNR shops. Your grandfather worked there from 1944 to 1948, he worked on tubing the big engines.
dad
I thought I had heard that before, it must get in the blood!
I never met my grandfather on my fathers side, he died before I was born. By father grew up in Stratford across from the shops.
It’s interesting how you can find a relationship within your family that was tied to railroading. In my case, my grandfather on my dad’s side worked for Pullman in the Michigan City, IN shops. I was told that when they closed the plant back in the 60’s I believe, he had the most senority in the shops. I believe he started out as a welder, and then ended up as an inspector, finishing his career inspecting boxcars. Now that my interest in railroading is high, I wish I could find out more about the shops and what he did. Thanks for the pictures Tim, old factories are interesting places, and also is fun to think and imagine the work that went on there.
I’m guessing the groovy pipe is for expansion and contraction of the pipe.
Nice pics. Makes one imagine how things used to be.
I have left the link to my web site although its no where close to what you have.
anyway, the pipe bend that you see server or served 2 purposes, one was to slow the steam pressure down, the other was it acted like a steam trap, when you go back look for a little hole in the pipe where a valve use to be or there is a sight elevation from where the boiler was to the end of the pipe
did you grab any bricks to keep at home, I know when the Maine Central closed up one of its old shop I borrowed a few of the bricks
Jack
My dad and granddad both drove trains -including steam until 1969- and were based at Eveligh, the main passenger depot in Sydney, Australia. As a 5 year old who loved trains, dad used to take me over to the old roundhouses at Enfield, the freight yards. We’d look over all the steam locos, dead & cold, waiting the scrapper and the occasional live engine ready to haul a rail enthusiast’s tour (and I’d come home filthy but with a huge grin).
Those photos vividly reminded me of those days, must be the peeling paint and the look of decay. I swear I can smell the grease and oil again!
Thankyou for some memorable pictures ! Even on that cold day , it must have been an awesome spot !
Looking at the pictures brought up thoughts of using them as inspirations for watercolour paintings or etchings … the fire hydrant in the snow with weeds was great , the small door with it’s neat details was fascinating !
Thankyou for a nostalgic trip back to the past …….. Ian
A fascinating collection of images. Well worth the wait time on a dialup
connection. I wonder how many of the curent plants being built will be
standing like this one after the same time span…Brian
Hi Brian,
The answer to that is simple, none.
Hello Tim,
I’m very interested in your picture of the fire hydrant. Could you please e-mail me back with it’s location and anything else you know about it? Thanks
Stuart
Just saw the pics of the Stratfor shop. On the CBRE poster there is a shot of what I believe is 6218 being swung underneath the Morgan crane. I have that same photo in my collection at home which I just discovered after 30 years of being filed. I never knew 6218 was built in Stratford, always thought it was built in the Angus shops.
I have seen many plans for this site and its so red tape to work through but it will suceed someday soon. Ther is many things that have changed since the pitures were taken on this site clean up has begun and building will take place very soon. Lawrence Ryan has graet plans for the site. Anyone interested can contact him at 519-833-0647 or 1-866-224-8177. Or take drive to Stratford on many Sat’s he is in the building.
Thanks, Michelle From Stratford
Angus shops were CPR, not CNR. 6218 was MLW built, not CNR. The photo referring to 6218 on the Morgan crane was Stratford’s last rebuild…in 1963-64, prior to 6218 becoming the Excursion Engine, replacing 6167.
your pic,s bring back days when i was young my dad worked at stratford for many years i used to have to go and meet him on a thursday night, there was a passage way in to the work shops and i used to wait for him there, christmas they used to have a drink when they had finshed work dad used to be a bit merry we would go round the market befor going home happy days
I think its very shamefull, that the City of Stratford, allowed the shops to fall into ruins.The shops should be preserved as a reminder to future generations, that The Big Shop once employed thousands of workers rebuilding steam locomotives for the CNR. Also your point, that the town does not have a steam locomotive preserved as a testimonial to the men that worked at the Big Shop. I do hope to get up to Stratford, to photograph the remains before, everything is lost to the wreaker’s ball. I can also say that the last steam locomotive to be rebuilt, 6218, also is in poor condition. Would it not be nice if the Big Shops where restored along with 6218!!!!!!!!CNtrainman@live.ca
The plight of the old shops is a continuing saga. When Cooper (the last industrial tenant) left the city assumed ownership and almost immediately discounted any further industrial use. The public works indentified the building as still using “DC” power and cut the power supply to the building…literally. The inch diameter wires coming in were severed. Walking through the building a few weeks later with a private electrical engineer…he laughed when the then public works chief stated that the power was still “DC” and couldn’t be used by anyone…my engineer replied….”large motors..like those in the crane systems all use DC power…even the ones built today….the building required DC power to make them opperate”….the works chief looked somewhat pale at that point.
At that point I realized that whatever was going to happen to this site was years off and probably not at all what the City might envision. One false start after another befell this place and then Larry Ryan got control and a 10 year slide began. The fire, removal of the siding for recycling, 1/3rd of the roof missing, and of coursse no financing to fulfill his grandeose dreams and the place fell further and further into a state of decay.
The latest saga…expropriation by the City for the location of the University campus. Hopefully that will end this sad and lengthy story.
Cool photos! I came across your site when I googled Lawrence Ryan. I grew up about 200 meters from the shops (although people from my era call it Cooper-Bessemer). Even though I spent my first 20 years only a stone’s throw from this huge building, I never once saw the inside, until I came across your photos. It really makes me want to do some “urban exploring”, but with three little kids, and no real experience spelunking through abandoned factories, I think I’ll just “explore” it from my PC…. If you want to take any more photos, you may want to move quick. The city already has the title to the land, and the expropriation may be done by the end of the summer. I am sure that 1 minute after expropriation is complete, the fences will go up, and the wrecking ball will be in full action. This (formerly) grand old building is on death’s doorstep. Ryan, sadly, doesn’t appear to be able to organize his way out of a paper bag… From my perspective on outside (since I left Stratford 10 years ago), Ryan is a “cowboy”, who wants to do everything his way, regardless of what the law says. He’s had 10 years to do something with this site, yet every year it gets more and more dilapidated…
Enjoyed the pictures very much. I lived within a block of the shops most of my young life. I hope the city can do something with the area and save a spot for the history of the shops. My father and Uncle worked most of their lives in the locomotive shops and I spent my first couple of years there as an apprentice. Not sure what the future holds for this area, but it is good to keep a reacord like you have for future use.
Charles D
Great pictures. I worked in the shops in 1948 – 49, first as shop messenger and then as an apprentice. Quit to become a starving photographer. Pictures brought back fond memories.
Ryan wants Cooper site back
By JOHN KAST NER MANAGING EDITOR
Lawrence Ryan wants the Cooper site back.
The sprawling downtown property bordered by St. Patrick, Cooper and St. David streets was expropriated by the city just over a year ago.
Part of the city’s rationale for the expropriation was to fulfil a commitment of land to the University of Waterloo for the Stratford campus.
However, in a letter dated March 18 to a lawyer for the municipality, Ryan’s lawyer states that because the city is giving a reduced portion of the property to the university, he would like it back.
He also wants the buildings on the property to remain intact.
“Given the substantial reduction of the university land requirements to a maximum of eight acres (3.2 ha) from that originally proposed, coupled with the corresponding lack of need for the remaining lands for the university, we ask the city to abide by the Expropriation Act and accordingly issue the required notices of abandonment and disposition under section 41,” stated a letter from John S. Doherty, a partner with Gowlings Law Firm.
The letter was sent to Chris Williams, a lawyer for the firm Aird and Berlis, which represents the city.
Mayor Dan Mathieson said it was always the intent for the city to deliver its commitment of property in stages.
“The agreement with the university was that we were to make eight acress available. In as much as they have taken 1.6 acres (0.6 ha) there is still 6.4 acres (2.6 ha) available at a later date to fulfil the commitment,” said Mathieson.
The letter from Ryan’s lawyer to the city also pointed to the possibility of other uses of the land as a reason for it to be returned to Ryan.
“We also note that the city has discussed selling or leasing lands to the YMCA or other organizations or private enterprises and remind the city as to our clients’ rights pursuant to s. 42 of the Act to be offered the first opportunity to reacquire the lands which our client will insist be complied with,” said the final paragraph of the letter to Aird and Berlis.
In a Feb. 11, 2010, story in The Beacon Herald, Stratford cheif administrator Ron Shaw talked openly about the possibility, long-term, of the Stratford Family Y or the Stratford Public Library being located on the Cooper site.
There were also drawings which showed potential locations for the Y and library.
Mathieson stated it was never the intention to turn the entire property over to the University of Waterloo Stratford and that other uses were always part of the plan.
“The reason for expropriation, from the outset was economic development,” said the mayor. “That has not changed.”
The city took possession of the property from Ryan and the numbered company 1353837 for a $4.5-million interim payment plus another $210,000 in legal and relocation costs.
There was no suggestion in the letter to the city as to what would happen to that money should Ryan be successful in re-acquiring the property.
Inquiries to Ryan were referred to his lawyer.
A call was placed to his lawyer, but there was no response by deadline.
jkastner@bowesnet.com
Loved your photographs, and I wish i could see more of the original pictures.
My Grandfather worked in this shop from about 1920 to 1962, and at the end of the career worked with the wheels, maybe in the area shown in your first picture. My dream is to find a picture of the shop with my Grandfather in it… but I think it is unlikely!
It is a shame that the building that housed Stratford’s primary employer until 1956 is forgotten and decaying with no preservation occurring at all. As you point out… with so many of the town’s grandfather’s working there for 12 hours a day to support a family one would think that some part of it should be memorialized.
Thanks Tim for the great pics and commentary. My husband really enjoyed seeing these. His grandfather worked here too!
In the 1940’s my Uncle Percy Man was foreman/supervisor in the pipe fitting shop which did the refit of boiler pipes etc during major overhauls. He often took me down for a walk around on Sundays – I can vividly remember a shop completely filled from end to end (over 60 locos) – no wonder I am still a model railroader at age 77